People trying to argue that Grant Ward isn’t really Hydra even though he worked for Hydra blow my mind. Like, that’s not a good defense of him.
He infiltrated another organization, spied for Hydra, sabotaged for Hydra, and murdered for Hydra. Either he does actually believe in…
So the original OP would have preferred that Ward had actually believed in hydra rather than denounce them like he did in the finale?
I just want to make sure that I am reading this right…
Grant Ward only believed in one man and followed him wherever he led. Same as Melinda May.
The only real difference between the two characters is that we know that Ward chose to follow the wrong man and whether May’s decision to follow Coulson is a good idea or not is still up in the air. We have to see what happens to Coulson now that he is showing signs of madness before we can really say whether May made a good choice or not.
I am loving this posts so much, because of the whole lot of hateful, narrow minded people emerging for me to block. It’s like we have stumbled on a whole new lair of them haters. Time for the summer cleaning!
lmao you’re the one bending over backwards to defend the actions of Nazis and we’re the hateful ones.
Ward never denounced HYDRA. His loyalty might be to Garrett rather than the organization (and Garrett seemed to be mostly interested in power, not caring much who gave it to him), but Ward stuck to Garrett’s side, all the way through being captured, and he never said anything against HYDRA or its roots in Nazism. I don’t see how the finale could possibly be read in any other way.
I believe his exact words to Garrett were “it’s not like we’re true believers…. Are we?”
If that’s not denouncing then I don’t know what is.
No one has excused his actions. I’m using canon to explain them.
That’s not denunciation, it’s denial. But even if it had been a strong denunciation (calling out HYDRA as the violent, repressive, racist organization that it is), it wouldn’t really matter. In the end, his actions — defending Garrett at all costs, following Garrett’s orders even when it means potentially killing people who thought he was their friend, making not-so-veiled rape threats at Skye (whom he supposedly “loves”) — speak much louder than his words.
Exactly. Whatever he might say or feel he was working for a Nazi organization, so what he says or feels doesn’t matter at all, in the face of all the people he has killed and betrayed for a Nazi organization.
I don’t think flippantly making comments about how HA HA HA WE ARE NO REALLY NAZIS WE ARE JUST HELPING THE NAZIS WIN THE WAR is any better than being a true believer.
Plus Trip mentions Garrett talking to Alexander Pierce on various occassions, that made me realize how high Garrett was in HYDRA’s hierarchy, so he was pretty essential to HYDRA and Ward was, as Coulson said, Garrett’s secret weapon. so yeah, on top of winning ALL THE HYDRA EMMYS Ward is elegible for Super Nazi of the year, competing with Brock Rumlow.
Also let’s remember that when Skye called him a Nazi and explained the origins of HYDRA Ward said “That has nothing to do with today”. That’s not a denunciation, that’s Grant Ward aligning himself with HYDRA and making excuses for a Nazi organization and hilariously thinking Skye OF ALL PEOPLE is going to fall for that Nazi apologia bullshit, lol.
Yeah - not only do actions speak louder than words, but as becketted often mentions as well, intent is not the same thing as the end result. Whether or not his intent was to align himself with HYDRA beliefs, he was supporting HYDRA as an organization by working for them. Whether he lied and murdered in HYDRA’s name or in the name of orders given by his boss, he was doing it under HYDRA and to HYDRA’s benefit. And in the end, I don’t see how supporting or not supporting Nazi ideals changes the fact that he murdered people and lied to them. Whatever ideals he may or may not hold, he is himself an individual that is in no way aligned with the side of GOOD. He is a villain. So, I myself would say that due to his choices, yes, Ward is effectively a Nazi. But I would also say that even if you were to win the argument and he wasn’t one… that gets you nowhere.